tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154859.post6223159668233972723..comments2023-10-05T04:08:24.731-05:00Comments on A Simple Desultory Dangling Conversation: Falsifiability and ChristianitySkyDaddyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05852753740426425712noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154859.post-47187661063653780342008-05-04T22:51:00.000-05:002008-05-04T22:51:00.000-05:00Andrew, Thanks very much for your addition. That ...Andrew, <BR/><BR/>Thanks very much for your addition. That was a critical point I neglected to leave out: The eyewitnesses to the Risen Christ - the conspirators, if there had been a conspiracy - died horrible deaths rather than recant their witness. No one dies for a lie that they know is a lie.<BR/><BR/>But people ARE often willing to die for an idea that they *think* is the truth. (cf. Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, jihadist suicide bombers, etc.)<BR/><BR/>Which leads to another theory I forgot to mention - the idea that the appearance of Jesus was an hysterical hallucination, brought on by grief. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately for its proponents, this notion belies what we know of the psychology of mass suggestion as well as the psychology of grief.<BR/><BR/>Mass-suggestion events have been well-documented, and the circumstances and outcomes simply do not match up with the written record of the appearances of the Risen Jesus. The disciples weren't hopped up on ecstatic emotion and "expecting a miracle." They were scared sh**less and "expecting to be arrested."<BR/><BR/>Further, while Elizabeth Kumbler-Ross's stages of grief are well known, "denial" does not mean "delusion." The disciples had watched Jesus die, had taken his lifeless corpse down, cleaned it, wrapped it, carried it. They were under no illusions.<BR/><BR/>I remember when I got the call that my beloved Uncle Bill had been killed in an accident. I cried out, "NO! That can't be!" <BR/><BR/>I did not cry out, "NO! That can't be! He's standing right here!"SkyDaddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05852753740426425712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154859.post-17660311351297681182008-05-04T00:14:00.000-05:002008-05-04T00:14:00.000-05:00An absolutely wonderful post. Well done, well done...An absolutely wonderful post. Well done, well done. (I would love to have been privvy to the conversation that gave birth to these thoughts.)<BR/>Another key point: The martyrs. Just look at the previous cowardice of the 11 (discouting Judas, of course.) When pressed, His most ardent follower, Peter, denied even knowing Him. There is scant mention of the disciples in the hours following His arrest. Where were they? The implication is that they scattered, literally running for their lives. After Christ's resurrection, where did He find them? Hiding "for fear of the Jews."<BR/>Yet something interesting happens after the roughly 40 days He spent with them before His ascension. They speak boldly and without fear the message that "the kingdom of God is at hand." They heal people in plan sight of the very Jews from whom they once cowered in fear. They spread out into the Roman world, preaching Christ's message. And, when they are arrested and facing a must gruesome death, do they back off? On the contrary. They faced death head on. Only one of the original 12--John--didn't die a martyr's death. According to tradition, Peter, the same man who cut and ran as Jesus faced a kangaroo court, was crucified upside down because he didn't feel worthy to die the same death as Christ. This was after he reportedly survived being stoned. His brother, Andrew, was said to have died while preaching...on the cross itself. Matthew was run through with a spear. James was pushed off a high part of the temple and, when that failed to kill him, he prayed for his tormentors as they stood around his broken body. Someone finally hit him on the head with a rock to put him out of his misery. Phillip was stoned and crucified. Mark was burned alive. James, the brother of John, was beheaded. Bartholomew was beaten...then crucified...then had his head chopped off. <BR/>The question, then, is why would these simple men, once so full of fear and cowardice, suffer so outrageously for a lie? <BR/>They weren't doing it for the prestige...they were hated by Jews and Romans alike. They weren't doing it for the money...there weren't any megachurches with their megachurch salaries and million-dollar book deals in first century Palestine. <BR/>No, these men preached the Gospel at incredible risk to life and limb not because they believed. It was because they knew. <BR/>Grace and Peace...Andrew Becknerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02589815719481569388noreply@blogger.com