Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Bush forced her to get an abortion?!?!

Blogger Freeman Hunt absolutely shreds an astonishing WaPo op-ed. Not to be missed!


tim said...

Oh my land Corrie, are we in agreement? I do think this is one of the lamest, most ridiculous pieces I've read in a while. It belongs on a wacko website not in the Washington Post.

However....I went into public education about 4 years ago (from the Church) and had all my daggers ready for Planned Parenthood, who I had learned to despise and hate from years in the evangelical community. Slowly as I was forced to interact with them I was shocked to see how much these people (at least in the area I was at, which included a closely related organization the Teen Annex) cared about kids. And 90%, yes I will stand by that, of their message to teens was abstinance. They differ from the Christian Community on the other 10%.

You know we all believe Plan A is abstinence. But what I found with Christians is the inability to deal with when Plan A fails. We just don't want to even acknowledge it and while I understand that - it doesn't help. Statistics show Christian kids getting pregnant at alarming rates and one of the BIG reasons is that they date banking on Plan A - and Plan A often succumbs to sex. And with no Plan B - pregnancy occurs. I'm not sure what the answer is - but I do know the Christian community isn't prepared to even talk about this and our kids are suffering for it.

PP may be off base on a few things, but they are dealing with our teens in real life situations and I believe for the most part helping them make good decisions. (I realize this makes me pretty much a heretic for even considering this possibility.)

Corrie said...

10%. Hm. To use a deliberately hyperbolic example, there was a lot to admire about the Nazis. Efficient public service, tough on crime, snazzy uniforms, public spectacle. But that other 10% - that thing they had about Jews -should we just agree to disagree?.

Killing a child is NEVER a good decision. Period.

BTW - a young couple (in their 20's) in our church got married recently when she became pregnant. They made a life-changin, but life-affirming and mature decision to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions. The child has had some very serious health issues. But they have been surrounded by love and support.

tim said...

Glad you admit the comparison of Planned Parenthood and Nazi Germany is hyperbole - many in the evangelical community wouldn't think so.

I know of one 'success' story in our Church too, an unplanned pregnancy, now married about 5 years. It has been hard for them but they seem to be making it. I also now of a half dozen horror stories of ruined lives (at this point), babies in situations with 2 strikes against them and extended families scrambling to piece the wreckage together.

By the way as your children reach thier teen years and begin dating, what is your Plan B for them? Having a baby at 17? I know it's an awful thought to think about our children making a rash, very bad choice - but look around - it happens every day to good kids whose parents refused to even discuss Plan B.

It's nice to live in a black and white world (and I agree many things are black and white) but go through this (fortunately I haven't personally, but with several families) and the picture gets much grayer and difficult. In PP's defense again - abortion is never the first option they discuss with an unplanned pregnancy. Now I think there is legitimate debate about whether it should ever be discussed - but at the risk of bringing up the Nazis again - it's a very very small percentage of the services they provide teens struggling or in trouble.

Corrie said...

Plan B does not include killing my grandchildren. There are loving families who adopt special-needs kids, God bless 'em.

tim said...

I am willing to just agree to disagree but again you emphasize what you would NOT do, which has been clear all along and you reiterate here. Your complete avoidance and silence on what you WOULD do and tell your teen really speaks volumes about the problem-which means you are leaving Planned Parenthood as THE alternative for our kids. So I hope your child, who knowing your position so well will be scared to death to talk to you about it, has the same iron clad conviction you do or you may not have any say in what does happen to your 'grandchild'.

Rule #1 - no Christian kids are going to have sexual relations before marriage.

Rule #2 - If they do please refer back to rule #1.

Ps - I see no distinction between special needs children and any other children.

Corrie said...

There you go again, building straw men on a foundation of ignorance.

My kids know they can talk to me about anything, at any time. In the even that one of my daughters came to me and said, "Daddy, I'm pregnant," I'm pretty sure the first words out of my mouth would be, "congratulations!" I'm kind of conditioned to celebrate new life, you see, not see it as a "problem." (Since you're going to ask, I would not insist on her marrying the father, but I would insist that he take full financial responsibility. You want to play, be prepared to pay.)

But enough about me - what about you? Do you think it is a "good thing" that PP can take your daughter from school to have an abortion without your knowledge or consent? Does that give you a warm, comfortable feeling?

My kids know that if they mess up, they need to fess up. It's called repentance, tim. Perhaps you recall the concept from seminary?

"If we confess our sins, God is faithful to forgive them" - I believe it was Paul who wrote that. Repentance is followed by forgiveness and reconciliation, btw. Despite what you might assume, conservatives believe in those concepts, too.

But Paul did not write, "God will make it as though it never happened."

Sin has consequences, tim, even forgiven sin.

Case in point - a friend of mine, Joe H., repented from his homosexual lifestyle and gave himself wholly to Christ - a couple of weeks before getting the diagnosis of AIDS. He lived only eight more years, the last few in a great deal of pain. He was a beautiful brother in Christ with a compelling testimony of love and grace. But even though they were eternally forgiven, he "bore in his body the penalty for his sins."

Likewise, sex has consequences, even when it isn't a sin. Sex can result in pregnancy, and most pregnancies result in babies. (I'm guessing you already knew that.) So, it's real simple: If you want to have sex, be prepared to have a baby. That's not very hard to understand, is it?

If A, then (maybe) B. If you absolutely don't want B, then don't do A. If you really really want A, then be prepared to take B. Like they say in Vegas: Yer pays yer money an' yer takes yer chances. Roll the bones.

Or do you maintain that it's OK to kill a baby because its mother decided to have sex but didn't want a baby? The right to sex trumps the right to life - is that what you believe? When you shed your conservatism, did you also cast off 2,000 years of Christian teachings about sexual morality?

BTW - why the quotes around 'grandchild', tim? Don't you agree that my child's child is my grandchild? Or are you reluctant to call an unborn child what it is - a human being?

tim said...

We're actually in pretty close agreement on the abortion issue - I could never counsel my child that that is a good, viable option. Really when I talk about Plan B I didn't want it to include abortion, but because of the orignal article it's assumed that's what I'm talking about.

For me the Plan B Christians do not want to deal with is contraception and I can understand why. It is an admission that sex may happen, a succumbing to temptation that cannot happen. This is what PP and the Teen Annex do deal with. They do preach abstinence, diligently, but they also say, here's what you have to do if you find yourself in a situation where you are going to have sex in order to prevent an unplanned pregnancy.

I would of course love any child, but you really cannot ignore the negative impact having a baby as a teen has on a girl's life. It's significant and dramatic. (and unfortunately the guy often is able to move on with very little disruption to his). My work would be on the front end of things - before conception and as tough as it may be to swallow - to be fair to our kids it has to be a little more than 'just say no.'

I haven't totally rethought traditional teaching on sexual morality, but admittedly some. I have just found it curious that so much of evangelicals efforts surround sexual issues (really abortion is about sex if you get right down to it, and homosexuality). I agree it's important - but not to the proportion spent on it.

I think you make some legitimate points here.

Corrie said...

The use of contraception is almost by definition an act of planning and predetermination. If one is not planning to have sex, but gets caught up in the heat of the moment, contraception is not a factor, since it wasn't planned. If contraception IS a factor, then the individual has determined in advance that they may be having sex.

So what PP is saying is, "don't have sex, because the having a kid when you're a kid can wreck your life. But if you decide to have sex anyway, at least use contraception. Oh and by the way, if the contraception fails or you forget to use it or just choose not to use it (it IS inconvenient in the heat of the moment, we realize), we can 'solve your little problem' without anyone knowing. So you can go ahead and have sex without any consequences."

That 10% is really important. I don't care how much good they do if they advocate and facilitate the killing of children.